Forums & Pictures
Surveys & Archive
1. Copy-n-paste what your question is about from the Member's forum, someones
Yes/No forum, or any Member Q&A Dialogue into Question & Answer Dialogue forum;
then hit New Topic button and paste your copy in the New Topic box.
2. Put members nicl-(x) number, e.g. nicl-1 or Yes/No persons name in Subject rectangle
followed by the subject of question. For a long question, add more at top of Topic box.
3. Remember you take turns, checking an "I agree" or a "this is my last response"
ends your part in the dialogue, and the other person gets the last word.
4. the Q&A procedures are meant to treat both sides of a Dialogue impartially.
Finally, to open another popup, close the old one.
Why rising CO2 levels Can NOT cause global warming.
Joined: Jan 01, 1970
|Post subject: Why rising CO2 levels Can NOT cause global warming.
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:42 pm
This was first written 12-20-2013, last revised 12-07-2018
The reason Al Gore's prediction that CO2 causes global warming is wrong is because CO2 can't. The Beer-Lambert Law, the basis of spectrographic analysis puts an absolute upper limit on how much infrared CO2 can absorb.
Since the warmists assert CO2 is the cause then Co2 rises first, and after some lag time temperatures rise.
But the 100 ice core samples in Greenland and Antarctica going back 800,000 years that include eleven inter-glacials show the exact opposite chain of causation. Temperatures rise first, then after about 800 years CO2 levels start to rise. Therefore CO2 levels are an effect not a cause.
During inter-glacials large differences between CO2 levels and temperatures are measured. This makes the ice cores recording inter-glacials the ideal measure to show what causes what.
In turn, after temperatures start falling by around 1000 or more years, then CO2 levels start falling. Ergo, CO2 does not cause global warming, as it is an effect of temperature increases. This is exactly what the Beer-Lambert Law predicts, It explains why CO2 stops absorbing infrared radiation at under 100 PPM in our atmosphere.
CO2 is instead the basis of all plant life on Earth. Remember you are a carbon based life form. Carbon dioxide is what plants must breathe to grow; thus it is the greatest plant fertilizer in the world, especially for desert plants as it enables them to use water much more efficiently. An effect NASA has seen in the Sahara from space.
2000 PPM is ideal and is the level master gardeners pump into their greenhouses.
Conclusion 1: We have a corrupt scientific environment where self-interested taxers and corporate interests buy so called scientists with Phds to tell lies for grant money. These "scientists" have been caught at least five times fudging the temperature records. Deliberately lying about the data is a mortal sin for anyone who claims to be a scientist.
Conclusion 2: We need to put as much CO2 as we can into the atmosphere.
For more information go to Climate Depot
This is explained by the Beer-Lambert Law which predicts that increases in CO2 levels beyond about 100 ppm stop absorbing infrared, ergo can not cause global warming;
Page 29 by Burt Rutan. A shorter term graph.
A caveat: This does not mean the planet can not warm or cool by other causes, just that CO2 stops absorbing infrared at under 120 ppm, and so can not further contribute to global warming.
The IPCC claim that there is a 95% consensus among scientists for AGW is false on its face, Peer reviewed survey shows majority of scientists are skeptical of AGW.
There are thousands of scientists savaging its latest report. The fact you do not hear these disagreements is a terrible indictment of our major news media. As temperature records show Earth was warmer during the medieval warm period 800 plus years ago when CO2 levels were lower.
The Beer-Lambert Law works in two ways. First, it predicts how much doubling CO2 levels affects infrared absorption as infrared moves in a straight line up from Earth's surface through a fixed volume of atmosphere(a cubic meter, actually less);
or second, by doubling the distance infrared travels while holding ppm constant. Both ways can and do operate at the same time. In CO2's case using either measurement, starting at 30 ppm and doubling to 400 ppm our present level, or doubling the distance CO2 travels through the atmosphere, all the infrared CO2 can absorb is absorbed well before 400 ppm is reached. It is in fact, an infrared sponge of very small capacity. Any combination of six distance or ppm doubles gets you to over 99% absorption of the infrared. Basic gas physics.
Here is an exaggerated example of how the Beer-Lambert Law works.
CO2 absorbs 50% of the infrared it can absorb at 30 ppm after traveling a given distance from the surface through the atmosphere(it is under 1 meter but we could use 100 meters and get the same result), lets stick with one meter, double the ppm to 60 and it absorbs half more of the infrared left, or 75% of the infrared it can absorb, double again to 120 ppm and it absorbs half more of the infrared not yet absorbed or 87.5%.
At 240 ppm = 94.75% of infrared it can absorb.
Obviously at 400 ppm we are at 97%.
In fact, all the infrared radiation CO2 can absorb is absorbed in under 20 meters of atmosphere because doubling the distance infrared rays go gives the same effect as doubling the ppm.
For example, lets use one meter as our doubling distance unit and holding CO2 levels at 30 PPM, then with four doubles we are at 16 meters absorbing 94.75% of the infrared CO2 can absorb. Since we are at 400 ppm, that is another 4 doubles or 99% plus absorption of infrared. Thus any combination of PPM doubles and distance doubles that add up to six doubles and CO2 can't absorb anymore infrared, the excess goes straight out to space.
But lets use a 100 meters as our doubling distance while holding to 30 ppm. At 1600 meters of atmosphere we are at 94.75% absorption of infrared.
CO2 goes up to more than 22,000 meters or 22 kilometers in our atmosphere. Go to page 12 for the graphs showing CO2 levels from 6 to 22 kilometers of altitude. High atmospheric CO2 levels are very close to ground levels.
Ergo above 100 ppm any remaining infrared absorption by CO2 is negligible. However we do get that lovely plant fertilization effect.
Notice changing the initial 30 ppm observation to 200 ppm doesnâ€™t change the argument. We could start at 200 ppm and we would still be at not 75% absorption at 400 ppm but 100%. Again that's because of the 22 plus kilometers of distance infrared must travel through the atmosphere.
Measurements of average global temperature confirm this. Average Earth temperatures have not risen for 18 years. This puts all present CO2 caused global warming models well below their predicted temperature range. This result is predicted by the Beer-Lambert Law because it says that any CO2 greenhouse effect has long ago topped out, as all the possible infrared CO2 can absorb has been absorbed long before we reached 400 ppm.
In addition, man caused additions to CO2 levels have always been a very small percentage of all natural greenhouse gasses cycled yearly on Earth. About 0.28%. This trivial amount can only hold a tiny fraction of the heat energy necessary to warm Earth as the warmists predict.
Those of you who say man's emissions of CO2 cause global warming must show us that the Beer-Lambert Law does not hold for CO2 infrared absorption, which would mean chemistry professors would have to stop teaching the Law and we can stop using spectroscopic gas, blood, and chemical analysis; or Global Warming advocates can admit your arguments for CO2 caused global warming are shown by basic physics to be impossible.
When you are talking policies that would leave a third or more of Earth's population without the benefits of the energy produced by fossil fuels that we in the developed world enjoy, then Global Warming advocates have an absolute obligation to get your facts straight about how much infrared CO2 can absorb at 400 ppm = ALL it possibly can; before you advocate policies absolutely contradicted by basic physics.
Measurements show that what infrared CO2 does absorb is trivial compared to water vapor in the rest of atmosphere.
Since Governor Inslee and the IPCC are pushing massive tax increases and regulations restricting the single greatest positive input for increasing vegetation levels on Earth i.e. CO2 which is the food we eat, then their NOT true assertion must be exposed and challenged before Governor Inslee's and the IPCC 's mistaken tax proposals actually do kill some of us.
Tests: A spectroscopic artifact by Heinz Hug
CO2 Absorption Spectrum Explained by Gary Novak
List of papers on CO2 absorption properties
These links are enough to get started. Hug's paper is simple and direct about how to do the test that shows CO2 absorbs all the infrared CO2 it can within ten meters at our atmospheric levels. It is easily replicated.
The best summary of evidence of how CO2 relates to climate change. An Engineerâ€Ÿs Critique of Global Warming â€žScienceâ€Ÿ Questioning the CAGW * theory by Burt Rutan Jan 2011
His conclusion. We do have a problem, low CO2. I agree.
First, we don't know enough about what causes changes in global temperatures, except it is not CO2 affecting those changes at these levels. We haven't been watching objectively long enough, so lets cool our jets and let Mother Earth do her thing until we know more. One thing I do know, warmer is better. Ice ages kill.
Second, Along with Rutan I strongly recommend more CO2 because it grows a lot more vegetation, especially in desert areas. You really do want to help green the planet without extra work and no extra global warming, don't you?
Finally, I stand ready to answer any challenges to my logic, facts, and conclusions. Isn't it about time our "warmists" stood in front of all in a real Public Place, the No 1st Cost List, to have their public assertions vetted by all?
"I swear to speak honestly and seek the truth when I use the No 1st Cost List public record."
Last edited by Dan on Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forums Last posts
Last 10 Forum Messages
This URL is for those of you who deny the E-Ts existence.
Click on "evidence" at SiriusDisclosure.com The Disclosure Project has over 800 govt witnesses who swore before Congress to their direct E-T contacts.
This climate url speaks to how corrupt much of our scientific establishment has become.
Why rising CO2 levels Can NOT cause global warming.
Cimate Fraud Whistleblower Rewards Program
Why is handling the massive scientific disagreement with the AGW(Anthropogenic Global Warming = (man caused) proponents crucial to disconnecting Earth's Anti-Matter debt?
Our leaders and thus most of you will not seek the truth about our real place in the universe. Why is explained by ignorance and self service. Until our society openly deals with this easy to resolve scientific disagreement, I must conclude we will not act to prevent Earth from being vaporized.
These links deal directly with How to Prevent our Sun from exploding.
How do we prevent our Sun from exploding July 16, 2024
How to find the two conjunction asteroids shown in the "Missing Earth" crop circle.
This math is required.
How to use a circle to relate 'e' to Phi.
Confirming objective reports.
National UFO Reporting Center
Crop Circle Connector
2-4-2017 Needed A-M debt Disconnection Tools, Measurements & Must Do's
HOW can we get these tests DONE?
The Latest Changes Made To Site
We have received7920383
page views since
April 27, 2005